Some people have left a major mark on transhumanism during its 18-year history. Who are some of the most influential transhumanists?
1) Max More & Natasha Vita-More
2) FM-2030
4) Nick Bostrom
6) Ray Kurzweil
These are just a few of the most influential transhumanists. If there are any others you think I missed, add them in the comments.
“Who are the most legendary transhumanists?” – those who don’t regard transhumanism as some kind of popularity contest…
I like the Kurzweil “I caught one this big” photo.
Sorry, I should probably restrain my “off the cuff” commenting: but still, framing it as “who is THE GREATEST” creates a very zero-sum atmosphere. Why not just say: here are some interesting, committed transhumanists, click the links to see what they’ve done/said!
Correction: that should read: “who are THE MOST LEGENDARY”. I should learn to quote accurately too…
“Who are the most legendary transhumanists?†– those who don’t regard transhumanism as some kind of popularity contest…
Couldn’t agree more. There are no doubt readers and posters to this blog who have much more experience reading, writing, and speaking about transhumanism, singularity, AI, et al, than I.
That said, even to my relatively untrained eye, it’s so clear to me that some “legends” are here mostly to hear themselves speak, post, or write, and in some cases, get photographed. A shyster by any other name, any other skin, genetic makeup, or molecular structure is still the same.
Is there no more arrogant, narcissistic pose than that being struck by boris and natasha up top? What? A transhumanist named “nancie” wouldn’t be taken seriously? What is he even looking at? These 2 don’t belong on this list, IMHO, or at the very least, not at the top of the page.
Thanks for the photos. I’ve communicated with a number of these folks over the years by email, but had no idea what most of them looked like.
“Who are the most legendary transhumanists?†– those who don’t regard transhumanism as some kind of popularity contest…
I don’t think it’s a popularity contest either, but to me, these transhumanists are legendary. I guess I’ll downgrade it to “influential” not to offend anyone’s delicate sensibilities. Seriously, you’re way too sensitive.
That said, even to my relatively untrained eye, it’s so clear to me that some “legends†are here mostly to hear themselves speak, post, or write, and in some cases, get photographed. A shyster by any other name, any other skin, genetic makeup, or molecular structure is still the same.
If they were so hollow, why would I care about them?
Is there no more arrogant, narcissistic pose than that being struck by boris and natasha up top? What? A transhumanist named “nancie†wouldn’t be taken seriously? What is he even looking at? These 2 don’t belong on this list, IMHO, or at the very least, not at the top of the page.
Well… Max More *synthesized the modern philosophy of transhumanism to begin with*, so it makes perfect sense to put him in a prominent position. And why are you ragging on someone for changing their name? And you get jealous so easily just from a simple photo? This was a photo shoot from a magazine, of course it’s going to be an attempt at something artsy.
“I guess I’ll downgrade it to “influential†not to offend anyone’s delicate sensibilities. Seriously, you’re way too sensitive.” – I think it was the “most” bit that I was squealing about: it puts the issue in a zero-sum frame, but I think that the change to influential is a good move. :-)
This is one of those times where you folks have made Dale’s point for him. (Almost impossible, I know, but once you get past his inflammatory rhetoric, he does have a very legitimate point.)
…but you can’t see that…
It’d be very amusing …if it weren’t so tragic.
A few thousand Transhumanists… who, from all appearances and by their own words, want to make all of the decisions for all of humanity’s futures to be?
At least you’re seriously talking about those potential futures, but working against the free will and self-determination of six billion other people on earth?
..now you’re talking about elitist oligarchies and eugenics. Eugenics is the logical extension of several things that transhumanists go on about….but you can’t see that, either.
Instead of actively engaging those six billion other human beings, you compare yourselves to yourselves. (We’re all in agreement, here! The rest of the world is wrong! …those poor, ignorant, benighted souls…)
…as for the list above, at least Kurzweil has actually accomplished something material that offers personal empowerment to the powerless.
A single, good idea can change the world, but sooner or later, someone actually has to go get their hands dirty and make that idea a reality.
…and if you surround yourselves
with people who think and act just like you do…don’t be a bit surprised when the real world confounds and disappoints you.
A few thousand Transhumanists… who, from all appearances and by their own words, want to make all of the decisions for all of humanity’s futures to be?
Errr… no we don’t? What in this thread makes you think that?
Warren, I might riff off what you’ve said and say this: transhumanism hasn’t really “made it” enough for us to be deciding who gets the biggest victory medal. Like, you could ask who the most legendary rock and roll artist is, and it would be a fair question. But considering the relative irrelevance of our movement at the moment, asking who the greatest transhumanist is sounds a bit like asking who the greatest garden gnome theif of all time is, or if you want to put it in a more optimistic way, asking who the greatest rock ‘n roll star is before rock ‘n roll had taken off.
Also, the thought of giving ammunition to Dale the TrollBlogger just makes me cringe… and I can see how he would use this. Knowing his typing speed, he quite possibly already has…
Although having said that, I don’t know where warren gets the idea that eugenics is the logical extension of transhumanism from. Can you explain why it would be logical to force people to not have children so that we might very, very slowly improve the human gene pool, when in a very short time we’ll have direct methods to change our own DNA as we please.
I’m always disappointed when someone pulls out “eugenics” as an argument against transhumanism, because it behaves a lot like a racial slur. Most people who use it don’t know what it means and aren’t trying to make a logical point: they just want to throw mud at you in the hope that some third party won’t see the slur for what it is. “Pro-Eugenics” is the new “Nigger” or “Fag”.
So, warren, can you explain the logic that leads you from the transhumanist cause to enforced, extremely slow selective breeding of humans?
“Pro-Eugenics†is the new “Nigger†or “Fag”
Black people, homosexuals, … transhumanists? Um, no.
Honestly, only these commenters could take a simple post like “here are some transhumanists” and make a huge deal about it.
“Black people, homosexuals, … transhumanists? Um, no.”
In comparison with everything else, I catch surprisingly little flak for transhumanism. Most people simply don’t understand it.
“Honestly, only these commenters could take a simple post like “here are some transhumanists†and make a huge deal about it.”
“Legendary” is a very strong adjective, especially when applied to living people.
“At least you’re seriously talking about those potential futures, but working against the free will and self-determination of six billion other people on earth?”
*Someone* has to stop the Earth from being destroyed. Most transhumanists are fairly democratic, but the vast majority of the Earth’s population is still in the dark, and there’s nothing we can do about that until we get working ultratech.
Is Tiger Woods not a legendary golfer? Is Warren Buffet not a legendary investor? Is Bill Clinton not a legendary politican? Etc.
I guess Kurzweil is legendary, especially for his inventions. Bostrom has always had a lot of insight. Drexler should be up there, no doubt. I would throw in Yudkowsky into the mix. I’m not sure about the rest. A good measure of being legendary could be the number of smart, original ideas contributed to the movement. Unfortunately, there are very few people in the H+ community capable of coming up with fresh ideas. Even some so-called “stars” in transhumanist movement are just ordinary conformists who’ve been just talking a lot for a really long time.
IMHO, transhumanism should be about celebration of ideas, not people. A list of legendary ideas would be fun to see. Perhaps future blog entry, Michael? :-)
I was thinking about Drexler, but he doesn’t say “I’m a transhumanist” openly, so it’s not really appropriate. Natasha, Max, and FM-2030 did a lot of important work to found transhumanism as a movement, actually popularizing the philosophy instead of just scribbling about it. They don’t get enough credit for this. Anders’ website continues to introduce many tens of thousands to transhumanist ideas. Minsky is not legendary? He is legendary not just as a transhumanist, but in AI and academia in general.
The real world revolves a lot around people. If you read the news, you see it covers people more than ideas. One reason is that people are physical objects whereas ideas are abstract, hard to define, and always changing. Yes, a list of legendary transhumanist ideas sounds like an interesting blog entry. :)
Michael,
“I guess I’ll downgrade it to “influential†not to offend anyone’s delicate sensibilities. Seriously, you’re way too sensitive.”
You chose the word “Legendary” intentionally, I gather; whether you meant to bestow on these people the actual meaning which that that particular term infers, I don’t know. Frankly, I don’t care. And I’m really not sensitive, just disagreeing with your choice of word. I’m over it. ;-)
“If they were so hollow, why would I care about them?”
I’m just going to let this one sit for now…your reasons for caring about them are your own. As are mine. I personally think Kurzweil and MInsky are in a completely distinct class (and yes, a superior class) from any others on your post, but that’s my bias.
I’ve read More’s stuff. I’ve read Minsky and Kurzweil. More gets, or shall I say, has captured, credit for much, which in my opinion, is derivative from the aforementioned thinkers. Now, if we want to get existential and say that “everything is derivative”, while I could argue that is true, it wasn’t my point. This is:
I get a bad vibe from Natasha and Boris. I’m certainly not jealous of them. Perhaps you are?
I think they’re trying to become celebrities. I think they’re trying to become the first celebrities of transhumanism. I am a capitalist, but I think they’re trying to profit in a material way off of concepts, theories, and writings which are cerebral, and best kept as far away from the discussion of “who stands to make the most money out of the TH movement?” as possible, and for as long as is possible.
Call me an idealist. A purist. A fool. I’m fine with that.
My instinct that these 2 are fakes, poseurs, and lame is what it is, right or wrong. Just a feeling. It makes me human. ;-)
My use of the word “legendary” reflects my respect for the transhumanist philosophy itself. If mankind does indeed modify itself into a variety of different forms, people in the future will look back on transhumanism as among the most significant of human philosophies.
Well, fair enough, but I disagree. If Max and Natasha wanted to get rich and famous, they could have taken dozens of easier paths than supporting transhumanism, especially in the 80s and 90s, when only the fringe was aware of these ideas. Transhumanism is an offensive philosophy to many (for both the right and wrong reasons), and anything but a “get rich and famous quick” scheme. I’ve talked to both face-to-face and they are sincere people.
And no, I’m not jealous of anyone else, heh.
Michael,
Fair enough, I respect both your position (on this topic) and experience; point well made.
Thanks,
Heartland: “IMHO, transhumanism should be about celebration of ideas, not people. A list of legendary ideas would be fun to see.”
– yes, this is exactly what I was thinking.
Michael: The real world revolves a lot around people. If you read the news, you see it covers people more than ideas. One reason is that people are physical objects whereas ideas are abstract, hard to define, and always changing. Yes, a list of legendary transhumanist ideas sounds like an interesting blog entry.
now this is a good point; I hadn’t quite thought of the post in this light. There is a constant dilemma when publicizing transhumanism: do you go for content or form?
I think that, at the moment, content heavy material is probably best, because that’s the kind of thing that attracts a small number of intelligent people. But in years to come, form-heavy may be the way to go: we live in a democracy, so when it’s political crunch time, a small number of really clever people will count for less than a multitude of ordinary people.
I like to make it a mix. “Crunch time” is now. Doubt there will be political crunch time. H+ has had content to attract a small number of intelligent people for far too long, we need to open it up wider. Intro to the mainstream is already in the process of happening. Long-time commenters need to rec’nize that H+ isn’t about our little brainy circle anymore.
yeah, I agree that some balance is needed. But if you think that political crunch time will never come, then why expend a lot of effort trying to market transhumanism to people who are more interested in people than ideas? What do you think lots of ordinary folk interested in transhumanism is going to achieve?
Some ideas along this front: if more ordinary people become interested in the movement, then it will become a more “acceptable” view to hold. This is good, because it helps to attract people to the idea all around.
On the other hand, the intellectual standard will inevitably drop. The less intelligent the average transhumanist is, the greater the pressure towards culthood gets…
Its amusing how people take an idea, rename it, call it new, and then try to establish celebrity for themselves around it. The ideas that have been repackaged and called “extropy” or “transhumanism” have been around far longer than 18 years.
Over the years I have witnessed people make harsh judgments based on false premises. This is quite normal when in doubt, but it is odd that a person to use pseudonym on your blog which is open and welcoming. I think you handled the snide comment with finesse.
As for my name: It was the wish of my eldest brother who died and always thought of me by that name. As for the picture, that can be easily changed.
Create!
Natasha Vita-More
where is Aubrey de Grey????
Aubrey doesn’t call himself a transhumanist and doesn’t like the word.
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